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发表于 2006-7-25 15:35:48 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 洛水藍 于 2006-7-25 15:10 发表 成績好象説明不了什麽~什麽都拿制度出來探討更是傻~~~只不過去香港比出國方便,而且今年招生很大手筆,所以被媒體拿來做文章而已~~~~全世界大學都有渣滓,人類要墮落~哪裏是一個中國成得了氣候的~
积极的来看说,其实哪个学校都有牛人,而且据我观察发现,牛人真是有与生俱来的特质的,并不是说在某个环境下能够造就的。而是说通过某个选拔机制之后聚合在一起的人,牛的密度比较高,就给外界产生了一种错觉,以为是教育所造就的这些人的,事实上正好是因果倒置。 之所以有好坏学校之分,区别就在于好学校能够吸收到好学生并能使他们满意,从而形成口碑,吸收到更多的好学生,vice versa。所以从这个标准来看,只能对自己的母校怒其不幸,恨其不争。 我现在很推崇的一句话是:现在有了图书馆和网络,还有发达的通信设施,任何人都能建立同哈佛的学生一样的知识结构和人际关系。

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发表于 2006-7-25 15:37:48 | 显示全部楼层
不过现在仔细回想这句话,还真是很judgemental啊。。。 潜意识里还是在推崇哈佛的孩子们的,Sigh~

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发表于 2006-7-25 15:41:08 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 nofacetou 于 2006-7-25 15:35 发表 积极的来看说,其实哪个学校都有牛人,而且据我观察发现,牛人真是有与生俱来的特质的,并不是说在某个环境下能够造就的。而是说通过某个选拔机制之后聚合在一起的人,牛的密度比较高,就给外界产生了一种错觉 ...
讚! 不喜歡在樹蔭下嫌樹大的人...
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发表于 2006-7-25 15:59:15 | 显示全部楼层
根據我本人的經驗,香港的大學文化相當速食,學生過分的實際而smart: 注意是smart,不是intelligent,而且普遍久缺國際視野。 而國外則比較好一點,學成歸來後,眼界會闊一些,英語也會好一點。 嗯,依然是一已之見 :) 忘了講,我在那邊還認了mj fans....~ [ 本帖最后由 cheerful 于 2006-7-25 16:02 编辑 ]

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发表于 2006-7-25 16:14:47 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 cheerful 于 2006-7-25 15:59 发表 根據我本人的經驗,香港的大學文化相當速食,學生過分的實際而smart: 注意是smart,不是intelligent,而且普遍久缺國際視野。 而國外則比較好一點,學成歸來後,眼界會闊一些,英語也會好一點。 嗯,依然是一已 ...
呵,香港學生在此口碑不佳~不想多說什麽,好的也有相當好的,但部分人的鼠目寸光真的又給華人的丟臉帳添上好大一筆...
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发表于 2006-7-25 16:46:51 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 cheerful 于 2006-7-25 15:59 发表 根據我本人的經驗,香港的大學文化相當速食,學生過分的實際而smart: 注意是smart,不是intelligent,而且普遍久缺國際視野。 而國外則比較好一點,學成歸來後,眼界會闊一些,英語也會好一點。 嗯,依然是一已 ...
楼上什么职业, 真实姓名, 工作单位或学校名发给我用用 短消息即可

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发表于 2006-7-25 17:33:33 | 显示全部楼层
本科在哪都差不多~~~~~书本上的知识都是死的~~~ 大学真正的区别在于研究生与博士生~~~~ 香港~国外的本科也不会教你多先进,多前沿的知识~~教了你也听不懂~ 那些学生中的牛人~都是自己学出来的~~~不是老师教出来的~~~

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发表于 2006-7-25 17:39:35 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 MkGenie 于 2006-7-25 16:46 发表 楼上什么职业, 真实姓名, 工作单位或学校名发给我用用 短消息即可
嚴重懷疑你矇騙過樓主小MM...
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发表于 2006-7-25 17:44:31 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 洛水藍 于 2006-7-25 17:39 发表 嚴重懷疑你矇騙過樓主小MM...
你顺便把IC, IP, IQ卡号一并发过来.....

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发表于 2006-7-25 17:46:50 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 MkGenie 于 2006-7-25 17:44 发表 你顺便把IC, IP, IQ卡号一并发过来.....
連ICP一起給你好了~
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发表于 2006-7-25 18:49:50 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 Supernannan 于 2006-7-25 17:33 发表 本科在哪都差不多~~~~~书本上的知识都是死的~~~ 大学真正的区别在于研究生与博士生~~~~
此言差矣,要看专业和各个Program的偏重,以及你想得到些什么了。。。 对于那些考不上国内好学校家里又有钱的小孩我都是极力劝他们出国的,原因是我也教过本科的课,知道有些学校是怎么误人子弟的,心寒。。。 有些老师是没本事,没经验教好学生(比如我自己:banghead:banghead:(:() 有些是有能力,却没有心事在教,忙着外面赚外快了。(这也不能光怪老师,这个真的要怪上制度和系统上了,没有提供很好的incentive让这些有能力的老师发挥他们的才干)
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发表于 2006-7-26 09:49:22 | 显示全部楼层
港校挤对北大?蚊子叮蚊子! 【来源:人民网-江南时报】   香港高校挤对北大就像蚊子叮蚊子。   一只蚊子,什么时候最容易被打死?那是在它吸血时把吸管插到血管里的那一瞬间。   不过,大多数蚊子都是不幸的,除去被蚊香熏死,被驱蚊喷剂杀死,被蜘蛛网粘死,被蜻蜓咬死之外,真正吸到人血的,只是微乎其微的一些幸运儿。   一个故事——很久很久以前,有一个人在踢足球,蚊子蜂拥而至,于是,他开始拍打叮咬自己的蚊子,打死了一只又一只,当他发现自己还是被咬了一个包时,他跑走了,剩下的的蚊子失去了美餐。   整个过程中,真正吸到血的,只有一只蚊子,而被打死的,加上根本没有来得及吸血的蚊子确不计其数。吸到血的蚊子固然是开心的,但是它的开心是建立在其他的蚊子的痛苦和嫉妒,还有被咬的人的烦恼上的。   于是,吸到血的蚊子可以生儿育女,而那些被打死,还有因吸不到血而饿死的蚊子们就成为历史了——时间不会停留,宇宙还在发展,它们,被淘汰了。   其实,我们都是蚊子。我们每个人都有想要的。这些,可能是,一个如花似玉的老婆,一个名牌大学的通知书,一个高薪的工作,一辆名牌汽车,也可能是,成为歌星,成为大作家,成为世界围棋冠军。   但是,正如彩票只有一个大赢家,而买彩票的人成千上万。就像蚊子量样,任何抢着吸血的过程都是某种意义上的优胜劣汰。优胜劣汰的过程是竞争。   为什么会有竞争?因为繁殖的速度不允许全体成员都过好日子。   可是,什么是好日子呢?什么是坏日子?好坏不是相对的么?我们谈到了一个古老的话题,什么是成功。成功对于不同的生物有不同的定义。   自然界的大多数生物,只要繁殖成功了,把自己的染色体传下去了,就算成功了。   人类不同。因为人类有野心。   生物的野心与智慧是成正比的。人类是最聪明的动物。   电视上一个电影明星买一个手提包花了20000美元,大约是16万元人民币。报纸上报道一个青年为了一个月的上网费用杀死了自己的奶奶,大约是160元人民币。于是,名人的一个手提包可以供一个普通青年杀死自己的奶奶1000次。于是,这个名人很成功。这个青年很失败。   可是这个名人真的感觉自己成功了吗?不,她要接更多的广告,演更多的电影,拿更多的奖,赚更多的钱。她要离婚去找更好的老公。可是,她并不知道。她的一个广告的亮相机会可以让一个普通人出名而改变其一生,她演出的一个电影的角色可以捧红一个二流的演员而改变其一生,她得到的一个奖是某些人奋斗了一辈子却没有得到的目标。   人类的野心是天生的。是吗?我以为不完全对。你可以亲自试试,看到蚊子飞到你的胳膊上时,隐隐约约的刺痛突然传来的那一刻,你可以缓慢地伸出手指,轻轻地压死它。同样的道理,一个棋手,什么时候最容易失误?那是在他局势占优的时候。只有先天就居安思危的野心才是与生俱来的。其他人的野心充其量只是一个抱负,在实现这个抱负前,他们神采飞扬地跑,之后,他们默默无闻地沦为庸人。这种人是可怜的。   比他们更可怜的不计其数。   这怎么讲?不计其数的人一辈子都没有走到自己的路标。而这种人无外乎两类,首先是没有任何志向的行尸走肉,其次就是走得太慢的失败者:   首先,少部分的当代虚度年华的青年。   其次,非洲的一个小孩一辈子都为了填肚子奋斗着,可是到了9岁,还是饿死了。   这个世界是平衡的。虽然,有人在快乐,则一定有人在痛苦。有人在死亡,则一定有人在出生。但是,快乐的人太少了,痛苦的人太多了。死亡的人太少了,出生的人太多了。平衡被彻底打破的那一刻,一切会从头开始的。   aloofjohnwang

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发表于 2006-7-26 18:24:11 | 显示全部楼层
......绝了...- -b
I'll Never Let You Part, For You're Always In My Heart.

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发表于 2006-7-26 22:39:04 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 badthriller 于 2006-7-25 14:31 发表 你好,请问你的自觉性如何? 放心,我问这个没有其他的意思.
呵呵,我爸我妈和老师都说我有自觉性,而我的自觉性主要体现在学英语,目的就是出国上大学。 我觉得不能因为制度不好什么的就放弃学习,毕竟学到总是知识,总比什么都不学整天抱怨制度不好有用。 不过国外(主要指美国)的教育毕竟还是先进,所以能出去的还是应该出去。(在国内就无所事事的公子哥儿除外,这种人到国外纯粹少钱,给中国人丢脸)
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发表于 2006-7-27 18:08:22 | 显示全部楼层
做了篇长篇报道 用上了本论坛两位朋友的言论, 如下: HK Universities -- a Threat to the Mainland? With over 30,000 mainland students applying for some 1,300 places in Hong Kong universities this year, questions are being asked about how the mainland and Hong Kong tertiary education systems compare. Although there are fears that this exodus of the mainland's brightest minds could have a negative impact on the universities here, an official from the mainland education ministry believes that the exchange of talent is actually a positive thing for both education systems. Wang Xuming said at a press conference on Tuesday that the Hong Kong university recruitment drive promotes the quality of education. He described it as an alternative route for high school students pursuing a higher education. As for top universities in Beijing and Hong Kong vying for the country's best students, Wang said: "We are aware of the issues. The relevant departments are conducting evaluation and research to find a better policy which would benefit both mainland and Hong Kong university recruitment." Further, he refuted claims that Hong Kong recruitment drives would badly affected mainland universities. Liu Mingli, director of Peking University's (Beida) recruitment office, told Guangzhou Daily on July 23 that it is unfair that the mainland universities have to compete with Hong Kong for students. "The recruiting systems are different, which is not fair. Most Hong Kong universities appear to be independent of the mainland's recruitment system. For students who apply for places in Hong Kong universities, their entry to mainland universities is not subsequently affected. But the reverse is true. So it's zero risk for them as they can apply to several universities at the same time." As for the so-called "quota reservation fee" required by Hong Kong universities, which aims to ensure that students register once their applications have been approved, Liu said that this practice is not allowed under the mainland system. "If a student with offers from both Beida and a Hong Kong university chooses the Hong Kong university, Beida will not know about this until the day of freshmen registration, which means that that student's quota is wasted. And because we don't enroll students after the stated application period, that vacancy is not filled and it's not fair to others who want to enter our university," Liu added. Hong Kong universities got the green light from the Ministry of Education to recruit mainland undergraduates in 2003. Prior to that, while not permitted to recruit students directly, several Hong Kong universities had students "recommended" to them by some of the mainland's more prestigious institutions including Beida, Tsinghua and Fudan universities. Such referred students were enrolled via informal or unofficial student exchange programs. In 2003, Hong Kong was allowed to recruit students from six provinces and municipalities. The number was increased to 10 in 2004, 17 in 2005, and 20 today. As a result of aggressive marketing and promotional efforts, Hong Kong universities have become quite popular among mainland high school graduates. This year alone, over 30,000 mainland students, a record high, applied for a combined 1,300 places in eight Hong Kong universities: Hong Kong University of Science and Technology (HKUST), University of Hong Kong, Hong Kong Polytechnic University, Chinese University of Hong Kong, Hong Kong Baptist University, Open University of Hong Kong, Hong Kong Academy for Performing Arts, and Chu Hai College of Higher Education. One of the main reasons why these institutions are so popular is the apparently better employment prospects. Last year, 99 percent of University of Hong Kong graduates found work or continued studying, and the average salary earned was more than US$1,800 a month. Less than 80 percent of university graduates on the mainland found employment last year, and the average salary was about 2,000 yuan (US$250) a month. Nonetheless, what mainland students fail to realize is that the higher cost of living in Hong Kong acts as an equalizer. According to the latest Cost of Living Survey released in late June by Mercer Human Resource Consulting, Hong Kong is the fourth most expensive city in the world. Another alternative is in the offing for mainland students. Macao universities started their mainland recruitment drives in 2001. Five Macao tertiary institutions have also been given the go-ahead to enroll 1,200 students from 20 provinces. But it would seem that Hong Kong universities are still the preferred choice. K.C. Chan, dean of HKUST Business School, the department with the highest entry requirements in the university, told China Daily on July 25 that Hong Kong universities have an advantage in teaching methods over mainland schools. "We encourage students to be creative and independent," he said. "We offer them more individualized guidance and much more one-on-one communication." Moreover, the English portion of the interview is an important benchmark in the recruitment process. In addition, Hong Kong institutions look for communication skills, logical thinking, and a sound personality, he said. He believes that what mainland students really love is the education environment in Hong Kong. "The biggest attraction for me is the teachers. Many teachers in our schools are world-famous scholars, some of whom are leaders in their fields," according to Beijing native Wei Yifan, a student at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, speaking with Xinhua News Agency yesterday. Qiu Tan, a former Hong Kong Baptist University student, said what impressed him the most was the library: "Six out of seven floors of the library are filled with original English books, and in newer editions than on the mainland. Even the variety of Chinese books is wider, some aren't even available on the mainland." Jia Huiyu, a postgraduate from Chinese University of Hong Kong, added that Hong Kong universities offer students plenty of opportunities to do internships abroad: "We have the opportunity to go to Canada this year. We have more exposure to information about international conferences here than we do on the mainland. And Hong Kong universities will provide stipends when you participate in overseas exchange programs," she said. But Wei warned that students from the mainland should think twice before they leave for Hong Kong: "Some parents are worried about the English language teaching, but I feel the bigger challenge is not being able to speak Cantonese. You will feel isolated if you cannot communicate with Hong Kong students and society." This is why mainland students now undergo a one-year preparatory training course before embarking on their three-year undergraduate studies. Training is given in English language skills and basic Cantonese. Language aside, cost can be another factor for mainland students to consider. Four years of study in Hong Kong cost about 400,000 yuan (US$50,000). Figures from the Ministry of Labor and Social Security show that the average annual income for a mainland worker is less than 19,000 yuan (US$2,735). This is why Hong Kong universities offer scholarships so as not to lose out on enrolling some of the country's brightest minds. Sun Beibei, who had the highest score in the college entrance examinations in Guangdong Province, said he chose Chinese University of Hong Kong because he wanted to experience something newer and more international: "The lifestyle is different, and I can meet many people from all over the world! I also love the bilingual teaching." Despite the apparent glamour of studying in Hong Kong, several students who have studied abroad aren't as convinced. They doubt if Hong Kong universities are so good as they claim to be. "Chinese students, I mean the students under China's education system, usually think that everything outside is better. But actually, this isn't so. Every city has its secrets, every system has its problems," Leisa Yip, a Guangdong student who studies at the University of California, Los Angeles, told yesterday. "Studying in Hong Kong is like going aboard, both in terms of atmosphere and fees. For me, western countries such as the US and the UK are better. In Hong Kong, mainlanders have to learn Cantonese if they want to stay there for a long time. I don't think that's a smart choice. And from what I know, Hong Kong students aren't much better than on the mainland; some are even worse," she added. Ma Nan, a postgraduate from University of Manchester in the UK, agreed. He said that the best parts of Hong Kong's higher education are the good scholarships, English teaching and international environment. But, he believes that it is the students who make a difference. He said: "The undergraduate courses are just an extension of high school courses. They are nearly the same everywhere. It doesn't make much of a difference whether you study on the mainland, in Hong Kong or elsewhere. Even if they do teach you different things, you may not get it. The good students are the ones who teach themselves well." On July 10, China Youth Daily released results of a poll conducted jointly with Chinese portal site Sina.com. 2,767 people participated in the poll. According to the poll, 71.2 percent of respondents said they would choose the Hong Kong university if they were accepted by both a Hong Kong and mainland university; and 59.5 percent thought that mainland universities' competitive advantages were declining compared to 20 years ago. In another China Youth Daily poll conducted on July 24, 61 percent of the 3,854 voters thought that Hong Kong universities' recruiting ace students from the mainland was fair, while 31.81 percent saw it as a threat to mainland universities. At a press conference in Shanghai on July 13, Professor Lawrence J. Lau, vice chancellor of The Chinese University of Hong Kong, said: "Hong Kong's universities cannot replace China's top universities. We have neither the intention nor power to 'defeat' Beida and Tsinghua. They are still the best universities in China. We have good relationships with them. We also respect the students' choice." "The mainland media are trying to create waves with this," he added, indicating that the phrase "Hong Kong university fever" was coined because of the "freshness" of the concept. "Mainland students know they have an alternative, so they feel it's fresh. No wonder." He went on to say that many Hong Kong students are willing to study on the mainland. According to Lau, another reason why Hong Kong universities are not a threat to the mainland is "we recruit far fewer students from the mainland. Tsinghua may recruit 4,000 students per year, but we just recruit no more than 500." He added that the quota could increase, but only in the next one or two years. In the meantime, Beida and Tsinghua recently announced that they completed their recruitment drive on July 22. Collectively, they have enrolled 79 of the top science and arts students from the various provinces for this year's intake. (By Zhang Rui, July 27, 2006)
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